Saturday, November 11, 2006

Intelligent design vs evolution


This is a well argued topic and I think it important to state one's terms of reference and why. In other words; are we talking of an intelligent being actually creating the Earth, our solar system and the rest of the universe? (and if so how did that being come to being?) Are we talking of a powerful, intelligent being creating the appearance of the world we know on a planet that happens to exist? (as Aslan did in Narnia or did he actually create the world, I never thought so, I thought he just created Narnia ie. the plants, animals etc.) Or are we talking about an extra terrestial intelligent being creating Man on a planet already populated with plants, animals etc.? Definitions from Wiki then:

Intelligent design
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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For other uses, see Intelligent design (disambiguation).
Part of the series on
Creationism

History of creationismCreation in GenesisGenesis as an allegory
Types of creationism:Creation scienceIntelligent designIslamic creationismModern geocentrismNeo-CreationismOmphalos creationismOld Earth creationismProgressive creationismTheistic evolutionYoung Earth creationism
Controversy:Creation vs. evolution... in public educationAssociated articlesTeach the Controversy

Intelligent design (ID) is the concept that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."[1][2][3] Its leading proponents are all affiliated with the Discovery Institute.[4][5][6][7][8][9] They say that intelligent design is a scientific theory that stands on equal footing with, or is superior to, current scientific theories regarding the evolution and origin of life.[10]

Which is not to be confused with: Creationism
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"Creationism" can also refer to origin beliefs in general, or to an alternative of traducianism.

In many religious traditions, creationism is ideological support of the belief that humanity, life, the Earth, or the universe as a whole was specially created by a supreme being (often referred to specifically as God[1]) or by other forms of supernatural intervention. In other common definitions, it is referred to more precisely as the belief in a literal interpretation of specific religious works referring to God creating the universe.[2][3] This divine intervention may be seen either as an act of creation from nothing (ex nihilo) or the (re)-emergence of order from pre-existing chaos (demiurge).

Evolution
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This article is about evolution in biology. For other uses, see Evolution (disambiguation).

In 1832, while travelling on the Voyage of the Beagle, naturalist Charles Darwin collected giant fossils in South America. On his return, he was informed in 1837 by Richard Owen that fragments of armour were from the gigantic extinct glyptodons, creatures related to the modern armadillos he had seen living nearby. The similarities between these two unusually scaly animals and their geographic distribution provided Darwin with a clue that helped him develop his theory of how evolution occurs.[1]
In biology, evolution is the change in the heritable traits of a population over successive generations, as determined by shifts in the allele frequencies of genes. Over time, this process can result in speciation, the development of new species from existing ones. All contemporary organisms are related to each other through common descent, the products of cumulative evolutionary changes over billions of years. Evolution is thus the source of the vast diversity of life on Earth, including the many extinct species attested to in the fossil record.[2][3]

Which should not be confused with the Big Bang
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For other uses, see Big Bang (disambiguation).

According to the Big Bang, the universe emerged from an extremely dense and hot state (bottom). Since then, space itself has expanded with the passage of time, carrying the galaxies with it.
In physical cosmology, the Big Bang is the scientific theory that the universe emerged from a tremendously dense and hot state about 13.7 billion years ago. The theory is based on the observations indicating the expansion of space (in accord with the Robertson-Walker model of general relativity) as indicated by the Hubble redshift of distant galaxies taken together with the cosmological principle.
Extrapolated into the past, these observations show that the universe has expanded from a state in which all the matter and energy in the universe was at an immense temperature and density. Physicists do not widely agree on what happened before this, although general relativity predicts a gravitational singularity (for reporting on some of the more notable speculation on this issue, see cosmogony).

Geddit?

We can actually view the Earth changing and taking shape now - click on the picture below to take you to the source: raincoaster's blog with more details of this happening.


So is this an indication of evolution and the power of the natural world happening? Or we in fact a science project in the bedroom cupboard of a deity?

4 Comments:

Blogger Metro said...

Hi Philipa:

I think it needs to be said that Intelligent Design is not in fact a separate entity, but creationism in disguise.

Certainly that's the reason the term is now in common usage in North America. The Christianists (as in "Islamists"--persons wishing to reform not simply their lives but others' and their societies' around a theocentric point of view) advanced "ID" when they ran into church/state separation issues during the education debates in the US, thereby ducking the "religion in schools" problem by allowing, in theory, the possibility that the "Intelligence" involved was something other than a god.

Otherwise ID refers only to a relatively small fringe of agnostics, a few narrower theists, and those people who think the aliens did it all.

I have no conflict with someone who wishes to believe that a god or gods created the universe, provided said belief is flexible enough to allow for the wonderous wisdom of said entity in permitting the mechanism called evolution (not a theory, it's as close to established fact as dammit) to make the world and universe progress.

Where I am in conflict with theists (once we get past the whole "God did it" business and down to the nuts and bolts) is that place where fundamentalists essentially stick their fingers in their ears and scream "Nyah nyah nyah I'm not listening" because they know (from having interpreted their literal-word-of-God holy book) that the whole thing's only 6,000 years old.

The big bang and evolution are not "theories" in the sense of "maybe they happened maybe they didn't". They are fairly well established. The difference between theists and scientists (who may also be religious) on this issue is that no true scientist will claim 110% absolute certainty that they're THE explanation for everything.

It is ridiculous that schools should be told to teach theism as science. Kids should get their religion from home and temple-of-their-praents'-choice.

Thanks for the blogroll over at FT, by the way.

Saturday, November 11, 2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger Metro said...

Regarding the intrusion of church into state in the US: Andrew Sullivan wrote this piece for Time magazine.

Do you know of Sullivan? He's a prominent Log Cabin Republican (a gay Republican group, if you can believe that)and Catholic (if you can believe that). His blog is often referenced in political debate.

Monday, November 13, 2006 8:24:00 AM  
Blogger Philipa said...

Wow thanks Metero, always appreciate your comments and particularly on theism, and this looks interesting - will look it up, cooking dinner just now as inspired by raincoaster here. Bit disgruntled as at the end of a lengthy process of posting an interview and book review of Robert Winston.... the whole lot crashed. ARGHHH!!

Monday, November 13, 2006 9:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes metro is right basically, intelligent design has along history and ceased being remotely respectable about 1800 . The reasonable premise was that the wings and eyes and adaptive complexity could not have been so well designed without a designer.
We now know this to be false, and that is pretty much that . I am not going to go through post Darwinian thought but to imagine any explanation of the world without it now is a breed of lunacy.

Actually there are all sorts of versions of this for example the idea that the universe being Little bears Porridge at the sub atomic level allows any chemistry and so there must have been a god . The anthropocentric argument will do to get rid of this but, in any case it is only a way pf perceiving things that is probably only a man made problem .

The real problem with all such silliness is that if you allow yourself a great big powerful person who can do it all then you explain anything . To put it correctly you explain nothing . As this being must contain within it all the complexity of everything you only defer the problem back . If god always existed , then why not the universe and miss out the ugly additional big magic sky fairy.


This is not where to look for god . If he is to be found anywhere it is in love which science cannot explain. Yes it can suggest why it might have evolved but it cannot explain the feeling of it or help with the value of it . I go no further than that. I have read the god hypothesis and found it was already familiar with all the ideas . there are large areas of the experience of being alive we may be tempted to look elsewhere for .
I would not expect to understand and I have profound suspicions of the value of logic and understanding. What about love ?

The supposed arguement of logic only take place in an artificial enviroment when positions are accepted that real philosophers abandoned a century ago. Metaphysical castles in the air are of no greater value than any other grubby paperback with its theory of crystals , suoper lizards , and the rest of it

Monday, November 20, 2006 8:46:00 AM  

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